| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| treyb | The prowler transmission I don't know about you but every time I used to read about prowlers and people doing things with them every post talks About the transmission and its limits. I'm not a mechanic or really knew alot about the technical side of cars but through building one up have learned alot. The Trans never really made sense to me until the day we had to rebuild it and I saw and had the entire thing come out, all removed and went through all of the parts! Thought I would share. The technical guys feel free to correct me this is the simple guy version. The 3.5 v6 was built for a front wheel drive car. For prowler Chrysler moved Trans to rear with a aluminum drive shaft. Shaft attaches to front, torque convertor spins, clutches and gears send power to sides that connects to axles to spin wheels. Works for v6 but is small and compact for limited space. SRT hemi is almost double tq. Which is alot for this Trans! 
Here is a another cool view of the top of the Trans. Our friends at Team prowler even put a cool prowler logo on top of it!
This is something most of us may never see I thought it was pretty cool! 
Trey B www.facebook.com/hemiprowler This message has been edited by treyb on 12-03-2012 at 11:30 PM |
| catfish | the prowler trans is diff.than the frt wheel drive trans. ------------------
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| treyb | Front of the prowler Trans. This is where the torque converter sits (blue). The drive shaft keeps spinning the convertor take this as the first set internals to drive wheels. This is upgraded on hemi build but still limited to space. That little shaft inside is what delivers the power. Can that handle SRT 420 ft lbs of tq vs 255ft lbs of V6 easily? The engineers at Chrysler modified and created the prowler Trans but alot of the parts are shared with some of the other chrysler vans cars Etc to make our rear wheel car come to life.
If you think about our Trans and every thing happening from gears to axle power and tons of clutches in such a small space all in the rear that's pretty cool engineering like most things prowler. You can push and shove more power into it but design itself has limits. I found this out as The crew was optimizing what we had it in combining differnet exsiting upgrade kits from other Chrysler cars. Then it clicked to me! As I always heard from Bob and CJ this was a concept car brought to life
 This message has been edited by treyb on 12-03-2012 at 10:29 PM |
| catfish | a stk prowler trans cannot handle v8 power,to much torque from a v8.i believe this is a 42le trans,where the frt. wheel drives are 41le.something break on your cat trans. ------------------
This message has been edited by catfish on 12-03-2012 at 09:21 PM |
| treyb | quote:
Originally posted by catfish:
a stk prowler trans cannot handle v8 power,to much torque from a v8.i believe this is a 42le trans,where the frt. wheel drives are 41le.
I know catfish trust me I know by experience !! I wouldnt have these pictures to share and had it rebuilt if it wasn't the case. But will tell you we have and will get it right.
The videos speak for them self but it will never be wide open throttle car!
This is more of a general post, anyone that has a gofast prowler with alot of extra power even stroker Etc have to watch the pinch point especially 3rd to 4th.
Again this is the common guys perspective. I'm sure many others can explain better. It was a black hole for me that I read on 100's of posts. but didnt get it being not a real wrencher. Not just talking hemis now! Just the cool Trans and why there are limits that I learned in the process. It's not always talked about but it's the truth!This message has been edited by treyb on 12-03-2012 at 09:33 PM |
| beachcat | Pic #2 also shows the location of the two, sometimes troubling,speed sensors. |
| treyb | this is the back of Trans were gears are built in . 
After all clutches this is what drives the spin to the wheels. Some guys change ratio for quicker snap on v6. I did prowler pro gears and didn't really get it but it worked.
On the V6 basically by changing the gears length, tension etc it changes the shift points and how the car pulls. So I would always jump into second gear tires chirp with gears right and the rpm run much higher. I didn't get it when dean explained it to me just know it worked.
But now it's clear. The gears spin different which changed the ride.
We had to go back to stock because the higher Rpms would kill the Trans with so much power. Ok common guy talk take a look at the prowler pro gears here
Vs the stock ones in my picture. That's the differnece. Pulley is smaller! 
For hemi need stock ratio to keep shift points lower. Most rear drive cars have POSI unit and gears only in rear. For the Prowler everything is built in to this cool all in one tranny box in back. That's some cool engineering to make it all work! Trey B www.facebook.com/hemiprowler This message has been edited by treyb on 12-03-2012 at 11:31 PM |
| treyb | A lot people say why not just put a Hemi Trans in the car?
I won't fit. The prowler is basically a basic aluminum frame with a tub body on top. No room for a bolt on Trans without basically destroying the cars design and 15k or more of fab work with no guarentees.
Common guy compare
Look at a picture of a hemi engine on a normal car. Found these online when trying to educate myself This is a 6.1 hemi engine with a Trans. It's bolted on! That means all of the power and tq goes directly from the engine to the Trans.
It does the shifting send the power to the back and gears and axle
 Here is a hemi in the back
 Our great cars have all of this in one compact space in the rear. So I didn't understand at first what was so complicated in trying to get the big engine in and why so complicated.
Basically to have to bi pass every thing standard create a custom bell housing to connect to the base prowler drive shaft and figure out how to get the Trans to accept the extra power with its all in one design. Here is a hemi prowler version
 It you keep the V6 let's say with a stroker supercharger etc you don't have to worry about the connection but still have to think about the Trans! Here is that famous prowler alluminum drive shaft that bring the rear wheels to life
 Here is the prowler Trans way in the back all in one and really designed for like 250hp
This message has been edited by treyb on 07-04-2013 at 01:27 PM |
| treyb | Ok inside the Trans blew my mind it was nothing more than what seemed to be like tons of small very thin clutches. Look at the thin piece hanging from the rack on top that's a clutch! When I saw
A bunch of them bent it was like of course!To course correct you cannot replace the basic parts like shafts etc.
You see Them in the picture or make them bigger that's the Trans!
What we did is a special secret treatment to harden all of the parts but no matter what that's is the Trans core for what ever you put to it! 
As the car shifts these clutches sit between the gears and do magic all controlled by that cool box that I never really got that sits in our small trunk in the back. 
It send signals to the engine and Trans and controls the shift point for auto and stick. Not sure if anyone finds this post interesting but never really understood it after 10 years of ownership. Through the fun learned a few things and wanted to share. Again tech guys feel free to correct me or add to it!
I'm far from an expert just post alot! :-) |
| treyb | Oh why is 3rd to 4th gear shifts a problem?
People on POA always told me don't let the car shift into 4th when racing etc. I didn't know why but it used to work.Well when we got inside there is actually less clutches in the Trans between 3rd and 4th gear. So if your pushing it real hard especially if you have much more power (go fast prowlers)
There is less clutches in the higher gear to handle
The torque. There is a good number of folks in the prowler world That have experienced this over the years and not just hemi prowlers. It might not be highly broadcasted but it happens and people that push the limits some times have to pay to play. I never knew why so many of the fast prowler guys I watched and talked to were so careful and calculating with their cars on the track etc it's more clear to me now! Trey B www.facebook.com/hemiprowler
This message has been edited by treyb on 12-03-2012 at 11:29 PM |
| catfish | maybe because of the lockup torque converter.i can see where almost doubling the torque could cause that problem.i do remember a few other owners,way back when who put in a v8,had trans problems. ------------------
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| treyb | there is nice torque convertor upgrade out there. I dont have the part number but alot of people have done them before even on the base V6 to help. I remember dean and a few others selling them before. Would need to look at some of the old posts. The upgraded one we have was blue. This was different than the stock ones. Maybe some of the experts can share more background. |
| catfish | i do know that in the middle of 2001 mopar went to a upgraded torque converter,for so to speak a better launch. ------------------
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| alrtg | Trey, Thanks for the photo's. I am curious if the Prowler transaxle assembly is interchangeable with any other Mopar transaxle. While I realize the case is set up differently than a typical front wheel drive transaxle where the engine would sit sideways VS inline but would like to know. Why....you may ask. Simple. I think the Prowler type transaxle would make for a good mid engine set up in a home built type car or converting something else to a mid engine configuration. If a Prowler 3.5 can be mated directly to it's transaxle without the drive shaft and then use the wiring harness and computers from the car, it would make for a solid package for a mid engine project. Ever since I had a Mid Engine V8 late model Corvair, I have been looking at other options since buying a ZF transaxle would be cost prohibitive. I don't particularly like the way some of the GM front wheel drive units like the Eldarado's and Toranado's used in that application. No I am not planning on building anything at the moment but am always dreaming about it and thinking of ways to accomplish it. I guess it is my inner Hot Rodder.
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| padroo | Andria, wasn't the Corvair a rear engine car, meaning the engine was behind the trans axle like the Volkswagen?
I don't have answers to your other questions but the Chrysler LHS did not have a transverse mounted engine. |
| alrtg | quote:
Originally posted by padroo:
Andria, wasn't the Corvair a rear engine car, meaning the engine was behind the trans axle like the Volkswagen?
I don't have answers to your other questions but the Chrysler LHS did not have a transverse mounted engine.
Yes, the Corvair had an Horizontally Opposed six cylinder engine that was mated to a transaxle. The engine was at the back end of the car. I had one that had the back seat removed and a hole cut in the floorboards to accommodate the small block Chevrolet V8 engine in front of the stock Corvair transaxle. There was a radiator mounted up front in the trunk area. This resulted in a very quick mid engine car with about 51% of the weight on the rear wheels and 49% on the front wheels. Since the late model Corvair had a fully independent four wheel suspension similar in design to the '63-'82 Corvettes it also handled very well. Most people never realized what great cars these were simply because they were different. I still have a 1965 Corvair Monza coupe waiting for me to reassemble it and start using it. |
| outagas | quote:
Originally posted by alrtg:
Trey,Thanks for the photo's. I am curious if the Prowler transaxle assembly is interchangeable with any other Mopar transaxle. While I realize the case is set up differently than a typical front wheel drive transaxle where the engine would sit sideways VS inline but would like to know. Why....you may ask. Simple. I think the Prowler type transaxle would make for a good mid engine set up in a home built type car or converting something else to a mid engine configuration. If a Prowler 3.5 can be mated directly to it's transaxle without the drive shaft and then use the wiring harness and computers from the car, it would make for a solid package for a mid engine project. Ever since I had a Mid Engine V8 late model Corvair, I have been looking at other options since buying a ZF transaxle would be cost prohibitive. I don't particularly like the way some of the GM front wheel drive units like the Eldarado's and Toranado's used in that application. No I am not planning on building anything at the moment but am always dreaming about it and thinking of ways to accomplish it. I guess it is my inner Hot Rodder.
Wouldn't a late model Corvette trans axle work in a mid engine car like you're envisioning? It can handle a lot of torque and comes in auto or std shift , putting all the weight of the trans and rear end in the back. Not sure of the bell housing mate up though. But that's what hot rodding is all about anyway.
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| treyb | quote:
Originally posted by outagas:
Wouldn't a late model Corvette trans axle work in a mid engine car like you're envisioning? It can handle a lot of torque and comes in auto or std shift , putting all the weight of the trans and rear end in the back. Not sure of the bell housing mate up though. But that's what hot rodding is all about anyway.
Yes anything is possible if you have deep pockets!!
Im sure someone maybe able to just use a stock Hemi SRT trans that could support the power bolt on. You would need to probably tear up the passenger bay and firewall and fabricate a whole new shaft set up. That would be very costly and could mess with the frame and safety of the design. For a GM swap
One thing not to forget about modern cars vs old is that you have to get all of the computers to talk.
In the hemi prowler we have 3 and they are all mopars. 1. Stock prowler computer - controls, dash basic prowler things, a/c switches, lights, tie to trans, ignition etc
 2. Manual hemi computer- controls motor, and all of the core engine related parts, since its a manual doesn't look for tranny codes to run
 3. Prowler Tcm- we all know and love in the trunk 
Now if you want to integrate a GM trans. Your going to have to figure out the programing too if you stay with a modern CPU based set up. Maybe you could go all GM with a LS swap. It all comes down to money and time! Getting everything to work perfect is not easy and every time you are the first one you have to work out all of the kinks.
There is a shop that makes the wiring harnesses for the Hemi swap, many have been done and it does work so that was the best route to take at this time!
This message has been edited by treyb on 12-14-2012 at 10:01 PM |
| diamondwymond | quote:
Originally posted by alrtg:
Yes, the Corvair had an Horizontally Opposed six cylinder engine that was mated to a transaxle. The engine was at the back end of the car.I had one that had the back seat removed and a hole cut in the floorboards to accommodate the small block Chevrolet V8 engine in front of the stock Corvair transaxle. There was a radiator mounted up front in the trunk area. This resulted in a very quick mid engine car with about 51% of the weight on the rear wheels and 49% on the front wheels. Since the late model Corvair had a fully independent four wheel suspension similar in design to the '63-'82 Corvettes it also handled very well. Most people never realized what great cars these were simply because they were different. I still have a 1965 Corvair Monza coupe waiting for me to reassemble it and start using it.
That is very interesting to me; my dad was into stuffing V-8's into Corvairs. His first was a 62. He put a 283 Chevy in where the original motor was. He and a bud from work engineered and made a plate to adapt the bell housing to the transaxle. After all their efforts, they had a corvair with three or four reverse gears and one forward. I was only about twelve, but it seems like i heard them say the V8 turned the opposite direction from the OE.
Disgusted, Dad let his partner take the car. The partner put the motor in a 62, in the former trunk. Dad lost track of his bud's corvair adventures. But a few years later after i showed Dad a pic of a mid-engined Corvair (v8)kit you could buy to convert, he got renewed inspiration to build a v8-vair. He procured a 65 and proceeded to make it mid-engined. Figuring he could fabricate anything you could buy in kit form, he made motormounts and beefed up the area to hold it. He flipped the original transaxle 180 degrees and made what he needed. He didnt finish it completely, but we did take it for a ride, with me holding the radiator (reaching over the back of the front seat and holding it off thepulleys etc. while Dad drove. The three-speed shift pattern was inverted/backwards, but at least the gears were pushing it in the right direction. We had decided to mount the radiator in the trunk and use electric fans for cooling, but Dad never got around to that stage. He traded it off to someone else for finishing touches. I had to wonder if the one you had by some farout coincidence was the same one Dad started.
A couple of years later, Dad's "stuff a v8 where it was never intended" fever flared up again, and he installed a 327 Chevy engine into a Vega stationwagon. Unfortunately, i never saw that one completed either because someone just had to have his vega, and traded him out of it.
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| catfish | drove a friends corvair,stk,back in the 60s,and thought it handled great.was really impressed. ------------------
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| WildCat | quote:
Originally posted by catfish:
the prowler trans is diff.than the frt wheel drive trans.
Have friends that work at the Kokomo Chrysler Transmission plant and they told me that the case had to be modified for the prowler but they changed all of them so at some point they were that same in that series, less the Prowler decal I was interested in a v 8 in my Prowler and were told if to use a C4 corvette trans axle, PRE COMPUTER it might be the best way to go for dependability, strength and FLAT ASS GETTING IT down the road |
| treyb | Yes wildcat I think your on the money. Vette rear could work but as you mentioned now your getting into the whole computer thing. Don't forget you have to line up the drive shaft, engine, so it spins perfectly straight. Make sure everything lines up can accept what your plugging in.
On the hemi conversions you can buy a harness that has been worked out.. I'm not sure how the vette rear end / Trans works with the main computer but on top of all the complications you have seen on my build I guess with the right amount of money anything is possible. There is that one prowler that had a LS V8 and rear but it was a major hack and redesign of everything down to the floor board.
I'm happy with mine but the prowler Trans will always be a pinch point for any high performance builds .Old link of Lingenfelter v8 vette engine and rear below. This is one detailed build. from what i know it would have to cost 75-100k to build this again. So much one off custom fabrication and design work http://www.prowleronline.com/misc/lpe_prowler/
This message has been edited by treyb on 12-29-2012 at 09:55 AM |
